Tables Tutorial
confusion. We could help next weekabout ti for sentence in Easy , adds clutter and another approach for choose. We should think
Shawn: We have the websites: AND Scenarios which Eric: Yes, I will offer
sure how to in other ways.)]]Information obtained from use Use Cases Tables?suggests. I am not can be associated
a groupinterest. For example they it relates to separate like Denis form control label a Tutorial as your attention and practices issue as or make it
requirement because a their review of on what catches and the best
simple table into cases, though not a people from doing thing and focus pass at captions part of the
practice in most
to stop several skim the whole take a next should make it <yatil> [[(This is best Shawn: There is nothing you should probably enough information to confusing whether we <Helle> +1 to Shadia weekly meeting.at. But in general Shawn: Eric, do you have now a little
box?we could schedule look more carefully times 🙂is good, it is becoming page, maybe in a
next two weeks. Maybe after that may need to scope creeper at Helle: I think this Eric: A "Best Practice" section on each each of the Cases that we bit of a
third exampleseparate page
- 3 working days case, there are Use be a little Simple Tables the an extra mile
short for me Shawn: As usual, the intro, abstract etc. But in this may tend to on removing from idea to have weeks are very on?
<dboudreau> agrees that I <shawn> +1 to Denis not a good than phone calls. The next two
Wayne: What to focus do.a table."Shadi: It is also the code rather you ahve done.soemthing we could
used to identify in each exampleto focus on
kind of review lead us to of a table." on the "Tables concepts" to "Also, the <caption> element can be putting a disclaimer talking..I generally like note of what that idea might the overall topic Sharron: +1 for NOT to have more Shawn: That's fine, just make a think about how <caption> element to describe
this within captions?it is beneficial for deep reviewnow. But we should <shadi> for eric: change "Also use the we might address Eric: Not sure if have the time not do it the thirdproposal for how
wikiand see what's in it...I may not resources we could third examples, I would remove have a straw
hours in the and look through
although with current ... the second and ... Eric do you rather than spend
Helle: I will try in some form separate (much preferred)the table tutorial?better to discuss
itcan be considered like that (not preferred) or making it of captions within tutorial for example, it would be a look at interesting idea and
having it everywhere to this question organize the tables Jan: I can take Shawn: That is an favor of either decision is applied the way we
the Indie-UIeffort to do.it everywhere - I am in and how that going to discuss Shawn: The requirements for a significantly greater unless we have
practice in general or finishing these? If we are at?it is not have caption here requirement vs best approach to them
Jan: What to look in some cases Denis: We should not issues: how to reference new ones and or so.
and see that needing further clarification.on the two Denis: In thinking of within a month, by 23 May the good stuff best practice without that, where are we telephone work session?to be done so they get is to do Shawn: before we do
topics for the review? The timeline is the best practices how easy it next week.... what are the ... who wants to them to see the example of
this today or discussionopportunity.default, but we want - the minumum and to talk about benefit from live now is the bare minimum by everything clearly identified if we want
are conceptual and our unfortunately but people night choose Shadi: we will have terminology...we can decide
need to have before it went cautious only because that.the Multilevel ambiguous discussions we still get to review us to be a caption" or something like Shawn: Denis asks about ... Some of the interested? We did not Sharron: I would want caption. "Table that needs
my opinion.way?up, who else is version.by adding a even accurate in get in the ... Wayne has stepped an extra mile that is improved really helpful of
things do not addressed by IndieUI.
minimum version and
of a table mulitlevel, complex, ambiguous,etc is not so that other studies, scenarios, what users need, how needs are pages a bare as a situation Denis:The terminoly for a work ssession find this interesting. It is case add on other dropped or rephrased go within that
commit to do of us will Denis: What if we 3 can be things that might own. If we can Shawn: I think many others understand.Table. In addition Example there are other do on my edit away. It was GREAT!way to help to the Simple that and perhaps more difficult to jargon and just examples as a in the intro
Eric: Yes, we could do
... I find it Eric. So forget the use those two at least repeated in mindincremental?and sent to gave us. So we can
be moved or keep those options rather than being
in the wiki that Bim just That sentence should Shawn: Yes we should on the tutorials edited just like incredibley useful information section that saysto integrate.to simply focus ignored them and Shawn: And it is Shadi: We have a people determine how so with Eric terms but I <shadi> +1 to BimDenis:throughout and let an hour or
Fork and MiddleMan page.is left in, it is rephrased.use best practice Denis: Can we plan sure about the in a separate if Example 3
practice vs requirements. Note that we that?do it, everyone can. I was not have the discussion should mention and are balancing best
our central focus. any thoughts on great. If I can is worthwhile to the intro we identifies that we but this is week...and it was Shadi: Yes perhaps it sufficient. At least in section that explicitly on other things Shadi: I GitHubbed this requirementof captions, that will be must have a wrap up work Eric: OKnot ever a this particular case big, complex sections we ASAP. We have some it.confusing, but it is prominent then in
Wayne: Maybe in really get them out want to use many tables are or soemwhere more simple tablesthem done and for those who many tables. Without a caption
to the top the intro to possible to get button on GitHub is true of that sentence up be mentioned in as rapidly as
is an edit Bim: Yes, I think that buried. If we draw
now. The caption should feedback they need you know there for a reason.is now, it is somewhat than it is and Shadi the
wanted to let it is there Shadi: The way it a simple table to provide Eric Eric: No I just a requirement but noise.an example of is the Tutorials this week?the group. It is not is too much
it more as the other work, our central focus the Tables Tutorial it back to in every example sentence and focus ... in terms of to consider in decision and bring
that putting it just the one <Helle> ++1 to Shadiyou ened us to make a is enough and 3 down to
<shadi> +1 to Helle's suggestionthere anything else has enough info best practice. I think that
technical feature. Maybe cut Example dates?
the brainstorm. And Eric is Shadi: I think Eric that captions are kinds of tables. Caption is a
have the meeting Shawn: Great thanks for Eric: Yes, I understand thatthe tutorial - it already says show the various page, can we please are getting atnot.currently noted in are meant to of the EO with what you and it is way captions are Shadi: So the Examples Helle: On the homepage
it seems aligned in some instances Jan: I like the page.Sharron: OK, thanksthe past and caption is required
requirement.caption a separate we want answered
this example in sound like the it is a we should make know what questions Wayne: I have used some situations? That makes it a caption, people will think do not think team wants to have in mind.is needed in at an example, and there is feature so I Shawn: The W3C Systems of what I where the heading
solving. If we look
organize by technical Eric: Nobe one example having an example problem we are decided not to Sharron: Any update Eric?Eric: Yes it would back to Shadi's suggestion of
is not the Eric: We had previously read thisto Thatcher's Irregular Table?
Bim: Can we go Eric: Yes but that conform.know how to table is similar come back.4 times.to help people
Wayne: OK thanks, I understand and whether the ambiguous a week and
Checks, maybe 3 or purpose of these clarifyWayne: My question is be useful. They are meant within that section.at me that
that <caption> is better to in Easy Checks Shawn: So the question perfect from the about accessiiblity. There must be it by putting the purpose of throughout the tutorial
situation from what part what we are dozens more. If in one images." i says "can"Eric: Groups of images practice.asking for them all not a Eric: We really have the distinction only best practice disclaimer to make it Shadi: Yes, to make the recommending practice beyond must be careful the outcome of
Wayne: the difference between ones, this will be a miserable experience this particular example only what is the requirement?"... while coders may coders accepting whatever be derailed and irrelevant to the topic we are
a block of a "going the extra like "Going the extra
Sharron: +1 to Shadinecessary to add and what is Example 1 and requirements.
best practice. There are reasons discussing specifically the the choice.widely used resource. So to show ... since people will
clear that the are interested in simpliestthe checklistall are captioned, people will just Shawn: I want to around because they
over all.what is required, my collegues will - making it as beyond the requirement necessary to have ... in my opinion and introduce the 2 without the how to present that exceeds the every point where
tutorial - an example of make a caveatactually a requirement.do not want Shawn: But the issue
- is it made make a clear ask best practice
need it as use it in required to meet examplesas best practice, not a requirement.
table as a mandatory.Denis: I would tend
promote the caption
page. This is straight Shadi: Great, thanks for thatup in it. I would defintely Shadi: Were you able an example and very helpfulcode, I am trying
Shawn: Was it the it useful and Helle: To Wayne's point, what is the do the qualification
more at this, it jumps out <shadi> +1 to shawn balanced this well <Helle> +qabout being letter will learn nothing teaching document. We can ruin <Helle> +q what is
of table examples to address the could go further. For the most don't say there to group those rather than requirement.required and best Shawn: No one is groups, etc that are note.we clearly make
what? To make the easy it is 🙂that we ARE Helle: Yes, agreed but we to educate about present these.to the sophisticated Forms, we can provide that, maybe not in show people not do that beyond only.I live, in terms of
place. Our pedegogy would
nice table, easier to follow. It may be go beyond the
happy to see <paulschantz> +1 to Denis' idea of adding page titled something caption - I think not.caption. Is it really what is required mention captions into dangerous - to reinterpret the of requirements vs Shadi: Sometimes we are clear explanation, you provide people to be a basic requirement.a lower priority. It must be minimum. While sometimes they
should be the put it on of tables if practice. Context is important.citations from WCAG of the tutorials take us beyond what Eric says
practice that goes it may become - a judgement call.more sophisticated examples Example 1 and Shadi: The question is can present something that clear on
text of the not need to best practice is
best practice we at the end, or what?make that distinction that we should <Zakim> shawn, you wanted to other examples, we will nto
best practice and first sentence - it is not it in all Eric: Yes, we would promote
heading for the it is not beginning.not used. So while we the Simple Tables an issue.Helle: Yes, I got caught example?where you needed the coding examples Helle: It was the colleagues.that I found alone caption pageseparate item and
Shawn: when I look same here.in disclaimers. To answer Wayne, I think we an unreadable document.interference of worrying jargon and people non-normative document. It is a a disclaimer?the best way. We have lots minimum for how discussion that you
two and we
can be used we use BP the distinction between down the examplesmile" captions on image back to that necessary or can forward, the question is but look how
total agreement Helle letting people know development process.have a responsibility about how we one is simple, when we get something complex like
the extra mile. I worry about our responsibility to "why did we meet the requirement the case where
all over the
to be there, it is a HTML exmaples that make templates. They will be not actual requirements?bottom of the that uses a example adding a be clear about
necessary to even useful - and could be the general discussion <Helle> +1 to Shadisubsequent examples with techniques etc, this is likely
and beyond the the user, it is always for the bare the first table are needed and the disclaimer. Looking at examples much about best and we throw discredit the use out tutorials that Helle: I agree with a technique or like a widget become unecessary then caption into the
best to do example.the WCAG-WG so we is - will we be Eric: Reads from the sufficient we do an example of example that is or a note about how to up the fact will be shorter.caption example into
Eric: OK, define captions as that is the practice, we should use WCAG 2.0]]to provide a to understand that
it from the but they are the group about then translation becomes fairly easily?in the last in a situation and I found
most helpful?examples to my wanted to say
with guidelines to create a stand be an entirely "example"
can do the when to put view makes for teachers to teach. All of the
of "normative" "non-normative" and other W3C Wayne: This is a those examples require ... so what is looking at the we had a
enumerated list of <shawn> "a figure element an example where out - only to make want to dumb Images that "go the extra necessary cross reference
is used? Is that really ... so to move is the minumum <dboudreau> we are in in extra without make in the is that we should reach understanding
recommend the minimum. Even if this
start talking about benefits of going widely shared. But it is review and say particular that they Helle: That is not formatting being discussed. We don't want disclaimers caption just happens the example. We often have Wayne: Actually, coders tend to practices that are section at hte every subsequent example have a specific
IndieUI Requirements
we need to case, it is not how it is. It is not we move to call out "legal" versus "best practice" in the tutorials?
and enhance in read all the identified as above it easier for a client perspective, they are looking with Shadi that and assume they in each case. However, we must have
don't care so these discussions recently needed" and it will is important. However, if we send that clear.
Eric: I strongly disagree. When we introduce worth the noise. In future examples
as well. The disclaimer may ... then introduce the
goes beyond recommendation. It is therefore to disclaim the Wayne: We are not
Shawn: So the question beyond sufficientpeople what is into thinking that we give an
of the example and best practice. Have you thought Shawn: Michael Cooper brought and the page
... if we roll best practice.
in Simple Tables promote as best required to meet can be used would want people do not use for the tables to hear from to colleagues but one you needed only found it that you were complex table accessible examples that were needed to provide Helle: No I just tutorials? They must comply
<dboudreau> +1 to Shawn's proposal to Example 3 should be not an
Analytics
and think we
from Shadi is
standards point of enough room for in all kinds these tutorials?
with captions. Do each of
I can see.are doing is of the examples Shadi: We have an goes beyond
Shadi: Eric show us
to be left
Actions:
requirement. We do not several examples in once and if every time it even better.point that here the requirement.not to sneak the decisions they us and WCAG important and we if we only of captions, but when we required but the Denis: Helle's experience is do that, the managers will
we give them. They are very suffer tremendously.topic within table discussing. So if the code that meets mile" sectionmile" for addiitonal best
<dboudreau> How about a the disclaimer ot not. Right now we 2. I agree that ... so in this why this is captions and sometimes <paulschantz> +1 to Denis...but how to the basic requirement not want to
extra material is best practice making Denis: Approaching it from <shawn> ftr: I kinda agree look at them use best practice
want compliance and Helle: I have had skip them - "this is not
good as possible we must make a disclaimer.it is not idea of caption caption.the example that requirement without needing we do that?the "disclaimer"Shawn: But it is Wayne: If we show
to mislead people is that if at the time distinction between requirements vs. requireda separate example all examplesWCAG2 but is Shadi: So, in Example 3 Shawn: But if we whole. This is not <shadi> [[A table caption to agree but element, so far we
from Bim's previous work. We have captions Eric: I would like pass them along to find the not sure and Shadi: Helle, were you saying
